Low end Apple for Building XCode

ArtLeeApps

Hi all,

Ive always been anti-Apple, i did have an Apple Machintosh only for spreadsheet stuff and one submarine game.

Anyways, me being an Androidian, i am seeking advice. What would be the cheapest (Granny Smith not Royal Gala) option when buying even a used Apple, for building Gideros/Xcode applications. I would still have to connect to the net via my wireless network etc. so i can test connecting to the apple store.

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amaximov

Mac Mini - I have a new one and they start at about ~$600 new. I actually got a 20% discount from somebody that works at apple but I am sure you can find a good deal on these online.

ArtLeeApps

@amaximov Thank you. im ebaying at the moment

If i were to come to the dark side..

- Can you build both Xcode and Android on the one Apple machine ?
- Can i move my PC applications/files over to the Apple and run in an PC environment ?

phongtt

"- Can you build both Xcode and Android on the one Apple machine ? "

YES

ianchia

That said, if you're hoping to run everything on a *low-end* Mac Mini, make sure it has adequate RAM and is able to run Mountain Lion aka the current release of OS 10.8. I would strongly recommend 8GB of RAM as a minimum for development, especially if you're planning to run a virtual machine like VMware Fusion simultaneously, rather than keep rebooting to switch between OSX and Windows. 8GB is really the minimum for a VM. 12 is much better and 16 upwards is luxurious. Also, Java IDEs like Eclipse tend to be RAM hogs from my experience.

If you buy an older Mac Mini that *can't* run Mountain Lion, you'll soon find yourself needing to upgrade the hardware since OS 10.9 is expected *very* soon, and Xcode updates always likes running on the current version of OSX. Mac OS updates are inexpensive, around the US$20 mark depending on where you live in the world.

On the topic of VMs, I prefer VMware vs Parallels - having had experience with both. VMware Fusion is rock solid though slightly slower, whereas Parallels tends to be a bit crashy - not the best thing when you're relying on it as your host machine.

- Ian

thanhquan1512

I am using a Hackintosh (a PC with virtual machine run MacOS X 10), and it's fine to install Xcode, build and submit iOS apps.

An upgrade maybe ok, you will need a Mainboard support Vitualization, a good CPU, and more than 4GB RAM

My specs: main ASUS P8H67V, CPU i5 3.4Ghz Quad, 4GB RAM, GTX460 GPU

ArtLeeApps

@thanhquan1512 so i could use my Windows Laptop, and install a virtual machine for MacOS ? Really !

ArtLeeApps

@ianchia Thank you.

That does help alot. if i go down that path i will have to get a machine that will do both android/ios.

OZApps

@ArtLeeApps, if you are looking at a machine that can do most for you, then you'd be better off looking at an Apple, it can run Mac OSX plus it can run Windows for you either in a VM or native via bootcamp. Depending on your Budget, requirement and usage, you can choose between a Mac Mini, an iMac or a MBP/MBA. If you do not need mobility then the MBP/MBA is out, if you need a desktop machine that works like a rock then you need an iMac and for everything else, there is a mac mini.

Hackintosh, etc are fine but not recommended, finally it is entirely upto you and your individual circumstances on what you need. If you wait till next month, you can get a new Mac OSX device with Mavericks, the new OS X version and hardware capable of running that, i.e. could last you the next 4/5 years and comparably faster and better than a Windows device purchased around the same time with a similar budget.

ArtLeeApps

@OZApps Thank you.

You make a good point. In the end i want to be able to build for both platforms but not run 2 machines. ill have to "adapt" to the Apple id say. My current laptop has a 500gig hard drive, 300gig is used, to give you some indication of the mess im going to have to "tidy up" before the move. Or... would i be able to dump that onto a Window virtual partition as is similar to ghosting a hard drive..

OZApps

@ArtLeeApps, most of the new Macs iMac/Mac Mini would come with a 1TB drive, so would give you enough space, the best way is to create three partitions, 1 for the Mac OS X(HSF+), one for Windows (NTFS) and the third that you want which can be used between the two systems, so you do not have to keep transferring and duplicating files (if you would use bootcamp)

Dumping 300GB onto a virtual machine would work but not recommended. However I think Parallels has a way to clone/convert your HDD to a VM, alternatively you can also use Mac OSX's Disk Utility to clone the windows partition and then restore it back. Many options there... Note if you want to use a VM software, then you will require Parallels 9 as any earlier versions would not work with Mavericks (the new OSX).

techdojo

2nd what @OZApps said.
I have a mac mini and it works a treat (cost about £500 off ebay - preloaded with a load of stuff), mines' the late 2009 model and I just run bootcamp to partition the drive into two halfs, one boots OSX and the other Windows 7, both sides can read from the others partition but can't write to it (but a portable FAT32 harddrive soon sorted that out).

The only thing to watch with Mac mini's is to make sure you get a Mini DVI or Mini Display port to VGA connector (the seller included one on mine) as they don't have VGA sockets.

ArtLeeApps

Far out, very good information here, thank you.
im guessing not, but can you use a PC monitor (LG) with the iMac/Mini.
And a USB keyboard. Reason i ask i have a $160 Kinesis Freestyle keyboard that is in 2 parts that i really like ( i know apple have a keyboard that splits too)

ianchia

@ArtLeeApps - I run dual screens on a 2010 iMac as my main dev machine, and the 2nd monitor is a Benq display. No issues at all. I've hooked up quite a few different branded LCD screens to the iMac, all work fine as a secondary monitor. I've done the same with Mac Minis. (The iMacs do run faster in general IMHO.) The USB keyboard is a non-issue. It'll be fine.

FWIW, I use to be a Mac user, than went over to Windows for quite a number of years due to work requirements. I went back to an iMac around 2009 and made sure I could run a VM so that all my software investment under Windows was still usable. That said, for the last few years, I rarely boot up the VM for development - usually for testing and the rare occasional program that insists on being on a Windows machine. And when I switch back I find Windows to be less usable than the Mac. Often, Crossover http://www.codeweavers.com/products/ makes a small number of advanced Windows apps that I still use (SQLYog being one) runnable on OSX without having to start up a VM.

Under a Windows VM, you can access any of the Mac folders as a shared drive even when it's formatted as a HFS+ drive. And conversely, under MacOS, using the VM you can access NTFS drives with no issues. There are also various 3rd party and open source NTFS drivers under MacOS so you can write (OSX will read NTFS natively with no problems. Apple doesn't support write.) Finally, if you format an external drive as exFat under Windows, both OSX and Windows will happily read/write to the drive (although you should be aware that Apple's in-house programs such as iPhoto rely on HFS+ journaling and won't be happy running on a non-HFS+ drive.)

MacOS is very nice, being *nix under the hood. If you do any server side work as well, the Unix mindset makes installing/running stuff like node or whatever *nix stuff very easy. After several years, I'm very happy to have made the switch from being long time Windows over to OSX as my main development platform.

Best,

- Ian

ArtLeeApps

@ianchia Thank you.

That makes the transition less of a worry, if i can still get to my Windows 7 programs/files. Im thinking ill be best to get a new Apple, and copy on the stuff i need to the new partitions over time, to eventually put the old laptop to rest.
its the best option looking at everyones experiences. after putting out my Android game, ive had about 6 relatives/friends asking me if its for iphone.. sadly no .. this is why im so eager to setup properly now for future games.

ArtLeeApps

@ianchia,

When you build an Android version, do you need to go to your Windows VM to run eclipse ?
I would image you would build in the Gideros Studio under IOS, deploy to one location. then read into either XCode or Eclipse from there.
So given that would you still need to partition an area just for Windows/Eclipse files?

Im looking at a Mac Mini 1Tb to start with. and transition...

OZApps

@ArtLeeApps, the best part is that I can develop both for iOS and Android without requiring Windows. Some of the times that I need windows is when I want to do something specific to Windows. So the Mac becomes your main development machine, and generally many would tell you that after using a Mac, the need for a windows machine is greatly reduced.

ArtLeeApps

@OZApps so you can run the Android SDK in eclipse within the Mac environment without running a VM of windows ?

ianchia

@ArtLeeApps Read through the comments at: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2672100/can-i-develop-android-on-mac

And also, I agree with what @OZApps said.

- Ian

OZApps

@ArtLeeApps, yes there is a Mac version of Eclipse with all of the plugins, etc. In fact I have been asking @Atilim to have a script or workflow that automatically generates the apk without having to ever tinker with Eclipse or any IDE. For fine tuning or custom deployment, the project can be modified, otherwise a simple one button "export and compile"

ArtLeeApps

Thanks all for your information... i am convinced i will make the move, it looks like... once you Mac you dont go Back :-B

petec

I twice Mac'd and twice went back! Probably because I'm just so used to Windows and never fully switched over due to the need for a PC for work reasons, so never really got beyond casual use of Mac. Perhaps I'll give it a third go sometime....

SinisterSoft

ArtLeeApps: I use Windows and run MacOSX in virtualbox for doing the final build for iOS. It works fine.