Kickstarter for WP8 and Desktop is Launched

ar2rsawseen · November 2014

As I wrote in other thread:
some Gideros developers joined together and it seems they are ready to launch a kickstarter campaign for funding WP8 support (and Desktop too) for Gideros.

And the kickstarter is now officially launched:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/207069325/port-gideros-studio-to-windows-phone-8-and-desktop

So if you have any questions, you can ask them here.

zoolax · November 2014

Count me in.
I missed Lua a lot,I have been coding in C# recently,I have lots of fun,but I surely missed Lua,I think this is a great idea.

HubertRonald · November 2014

Nice!!!

I hope than Gideros can support html5 too, because the trend is build hybrid systems (native and no native apps) and take advantage cloud and kill three birds with one stone (mac, pc and web), I believe would be interesting also than we can create business apps and get more funds for maintenance to Gideros like platform, after all, apps game has a shorter life cycle (in market) than apps business or apps social.

That's just my two cents

techdojo · November 2014

I'll be in if there's a browser target (based off Pixi.js ???) - HTML5 is definitely the way to go.

I've been getting my Lua fix with Codea again recently, but I still have a soft spot for Gideros.

ar2rsawseen · November 2014

And the date is set, it will start on 1st of December

Unfortunately no html5 for now, sorry

tkhnoman · November 2014

=D>
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=D> =D> =D> =D>

john26 · November 2014

I'd just like to say how much we are looking forward to starting this work! We've been working hard putting together the Kickstarter project and think you will like it :-). It will be great to make Gideros truly cross platform at last! As you will see from the campaign details, we have already made some progress towards WP8 and Desktop. You will also be able to export your apps as "Metro Style" Windows Store apps which is a big market including Windows 8 and Windows RT tablets (eg MS Surface).

@HubertRonald Adding support for Desktop (Windows and Mac) will be a good step forward for business apps. We will also investigate adding support for native desktop widgets, menus etc within the app.

dominikusdp · November 2014

yeay! will back it for sure! =D> =D> =D> =D>

techdojo · November 2014

Congrats - now don't forget what I said about HTML5

(I'm guessing that will be a stretch goal).

And good luck with the campaign.

SinisterSoft · November 2014

I'll be investing in the kickstarter. Just don't price it too high as it's near Christmas!

john26 · November 2014

Thanks, @techdojo, yes, we will consider adding it as a stretch goal, maybe using Emscriptem/WebGL? Let me think about this before Monday!

But, may I ask, how would HTML5 benefit devs beyond what we are suggesting? With the new ports, you will be able to prepare a native Gideros game on Windows (desktop and Metro app), Mac OS X, WP8, iOS and Android. So would HTML5 as well reach more people? I guess if people prefer to play in their browser...?

john26 · November 2014

Thanks, @SinisterSoft! I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the price we are asking for, but I don't want to reveal it now ;-)

MikeHart · November 2014

As long as the app creation process is automated, i could see myself coming back. Is it?

uzubari · November 2014

Hell not interested in wp8 or desktop but i want to support for the continiuty of Gideros.

techdojo · November 2014

@john26 - Definitely yes, think about the number of connected devices, smart tv's, chomebooks etc etc etc that all would benefit from HTML5 as opposed to native. And that's also not forgetting environments where machines are locked down and installing software is not an option. Targeting HTML5 really does round off the list and makes the system truly cross platform.

Although I agree desktop is important - but being able to instantly deploy, automatically update and access a game without having any extra gatekeepers is a huge huge bonus.

Did you see the last Mozilla Humble Bundle where a lot of desktop apps had been ported to run in the browser?

Personally I really believe that the age of the native desktop app is drawing to a close and that HTML5 web app development will take it's place. Every day I find myself using more and more web apps and relying less and less on native apps - we're not there yet, but the writing is definitely on the wall!

Just my $0.02

john26 · November 2014

Thanks, @techdojo. I can certainly see the advantage of HTML5 now and will consider adding it as a stretch goal. But it is fairly challenging as the whole Gideros code base would need to be "compiled" as Javascript using emscripten and linked to WebGL. So realistically the price for HTML5 would be quite high compared to the core goals of WP8/Desktop port.

john26 · November 2014

@MikeHart, Yes, we intend the app creation process to be automatic. So, for WP8, Gideros will directly export an APPX package which you can test or upload to the app store. For Windows Desktop, Gideros will create a self-extracting EXE file using the NSIS installer system. So, you will not have to deal with another IDE other than Gideros Studio.

(there will also be an advanced option where Gideros prepares all the files in a directory and adds batch/shell script files. The user can then alter the XML manifest, icons etc, and run these batch files to create the package. But no need to use Visual Studio etc)

keszegh · November 2014

@john26, these sound great, i can't wait. can you tell us if the funding is successful, when can we expect to have the desktop export ready? (when will the kickstarting end, also)
also, i don't have a mac but intend to have mac exported versions of my app, but so far i know nothing about this. does this also need some subscription (like for ios the yearly 150usd or what), or it's open to anybody to compile mac executables? will this also be automatic perhaps. it would be best if i could compile mac executable straight from windows, but i don't know if that's possible in any way.

techdojo · November 2014

The PC version of GameMaker Studio can export native Mac app's, although I'm not sure if they're signed and deployable to the Mac app store.

That said IF you do want to deploy to the Mac app store then yes you do need ANOTHER Apple develop licence at ANOTHER $99 per year for the privilege. Although there's no reason why the macinthecloud service couldn't be used to export / sign your apps once they're done.

@John26 - Glad I was able to convince you, I also forgot the add the Chrome app store, as well as the ability to use the Nintendo Web Framework and add Wii-U to your list. I also think that HTML5 export would also open XBox One and PS4 via their indie programs as well.

Also Emscriptem might be one way - I'm not sure how but the HaXe language (www.haxe.org) also supports Javascript (as well as C/C++, PHP, Java and more) outputs. It's open source so it might offer some other choices.

As for rendering, I argee WebGL would be the best bet.

Mells · November 2014

Hi everyone,

that might sound obvious to you but.. how do you sell an HTML5 game?
Is there an obvious marketplace (with millions of credit cards ready to be used), and do people have a way to "own" the app they just purchased?

Or is the point of Html5 apps to be shared only?

SinisterSoft · November 2014

I personally would like the installer (for Windows) to be optional - a self contained executable is much better - any files could be automatically extracted (if needed) to temp. Otherwise an interface between the compressed (contained) image and the load system is all that's needed. That way a game can be downloaded and run, no install.

html5 is not there yet - you should save that for the next kickstarter.

john26 · November 2014

@kezegh: The Kickstarter will run from 1 December to 16 January (we decided to give people a bit more time and not end near Christmas/ New year). We plan to deliver the product by June 2015. However, one of the rewards will be to have beta access earlier than this. (by April).

Just to amplify what @techdojo said. You don't need to use the Mac App store to distribute Mac apps. You can just release from your own website and then you don't owe Apple anything, nor do you need to go through their review process (this is the traditional way of releasing for Mac, long before the OS X App store was invented). However, if you do choose the Mac App store, you will have to pay Apple $99/year (on top of iOS fee) and obey their rules (code signing, review etc). This almost certainly means you will need a Mac to submit to the app store and for the signing process etc. If you are happy to distribute the app yourself then, yes, it should be possible to export the app from a PC (but I have to check this). But you will probably want to test on a Mac as well!

Conversely you will need a Windows 8 PC to test and deploy a WP8 game. I've tried to find ways round this, but it seems impossible to do it with Windows 7 or earlier (and obviously not possible with a Mac). But a new Win 8 laptop can be had for as little as £200 so it's not a great barrier IMO.

john26 · November 2014

@SinisterSoft. I will look into this option, it should be possible I suppose. After all a self-extracting EXE (as in NSIS) is just what you describe except its only mission is to extract its content rather than play the actual game. But would people really want to run a game directly from a website like this? I can't say it's something I've done myself... But why not!? :-)

techdojo · November 2014

@John26 - as for Win8 export - I haven't tried this buy you could probably get it to work by downloading the (free) virtual box and then downloading a Windows 8 image from https://www.modern.ie/en-gb - you need to restart it every month but if all your doing is an export and submit then it's doable.

@Mells - hey Mell's long time no speak

. As for monitizing HTML5 - there are several options, Chrome App store, Facebook Credits, Humble Bundle, selling access from your own site, obviously Wii U and other consoles have their own app stores, then there's ad revenue, sponsorship - in fact I'd say there are a lot more options than native desktop (yet another reason to push for HTML5).

Check out this guy http://www.truevalhalla.com/blog/ he publishes his online earnings from HTML5 each month and appears to be doing quite nicely!

@John26 - I suppose I could do the HTML5 thing myself what with the source being open and all

but I haven't got any free time - however this https://github.com/mherkender/lua.js/ might be a good place to start.

I'd be happy to contribute what little time I do have to any HTML5 work / tests.

MikeHart · November 2014

Another good way is to sell non exclusive licenses to publishers for your html5 games. At least last year it was. I made more than with ios and android together.

But do yourself a favor and dont buy that ebook from this truvahala guy. It is just 30-40 pages, 10-20 just index stuff and empty pages. And the rest is just common sense and hot air. That is why i don't trust any numbers from him. It is just talk and he doesn't back it up whatssoether. Imho a scam to get the people to buy his "book".

techdojo · November 2014

@MikeHart - I've heard that from a lot of other sources and whilst that might be the case I prefer to see it as an example of that it IS possible to actually make money off HTML5 rather than taking his numbers as gospel.

And Gamemaker is certainly capable of making the kind of casual HTML5 games that seem popular right now.

MikeHart · November 2014

And Gamemaker is certainly capable of making the kind of casual HTML5 games that seem popular right now.

Absolutely. Like other tools too. Some publishers have requirements that you need to address in a way that most/all middleware tools not provide. For an example, using webfonts instead of bitmap font. Or the app has to load in 5 secs. Sound on IOS, etc.

These features are doable but so far I have to find a middleware that supports them.

And regarding the html5 market. After its initial hype, it got flooded with devs and the quality bar was raised much much higher. Also it seems that a lot of publisher are doing their own thing now or went out of the HTML5 business. To me it looks the same as the android/ios market bubble. For indies it will be harder and harder to be successful.

The html5gamedev.com forum is a very good resource. Once you post there 3-5 times, a hidden forum comes up with informations on html5 publishers. You will see that the success stories aren't that many anymore.

Personally I have now only interest in Desktop games / Apps. No mobile anymore.

techdojo · November 2014

In a lot of cases iOS/Android and HTML5 are seen as the new "shiny" and it's true people often forget desktop in favour of the new shiny.

Still - you can always wrap HTML5 in a native wrapper and have the best of both worlds

john26 · November 2014

@techdojo and @mikehart, thanks very much for your comments regarding HTML5 monetisation, that certainly puts things in better perspective! We will make HTML5 a stretch goal, but it will be a signficantly higher amount because we have no current experience of this and "compiling" the entire C++ codebade to javascript and linking correctly to WebGL is likely to be challenging. Also, there is the sound system and file system to consider (eg Documents directory). And the fonts and other web specific issues as Mike mentioned...

By contrast we have a lot of prior experience in WP8 and Desktop so that is much more of a known problem.

@techdojo, yes, you could install a trial version of Windows 8 and deploy WP8 apps that way. Another option is to sign up to test Windows 10 which is free until April 2015. But, of course, you can expect some bugs... Both options involve a certain amount of hassle and really comes down to whether its worth it to save the cost of a new PC...

Mells · November 2014

@techdojo Hey

About Html5 monetization : my question was really focused on "how many market places can provide devs with millions of users and their credit cards" vs "selling things on our own".
I assumed the market had matured and there was a central market place, because I haven't followed its development.

# Credit Cards + Discovery
Desktop > Steam, Mac AppStore
iOS, Android > App Stores
Html5 > ?

- Humble Bundle -> only apps that were chosen (and already profitable) appear in the Bundle, right?
- Chrome App store, Facebook Credits -> I've never heard of a trend of successful developers on those stores
- Ads, sponsorship -> devs need a big audience to make those work
I see more options, but user's trust and attention is also divided.

I just don't know enough about it, but I'm intrigued.

@john26 great to see your involvement in that project.

SinisterSoft · November 2014

Throughout all this - will it still all be open source at the end?

I'm only concerned because if I do get an xdk I want to be able to convert Gideros to work on it.

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