Hello from James Reynolds

Magnusviri

I'm a hobby game programmer with a few games on iOS (http://yummyyellow.com/). I recently started teaching a youth class on game programming and there was interest in doing game programming for phones and the development environment I previously used did not support phones and it wasn't on the roadmap for it, so I began looking at alternatives and Mike Hartlef suggested Gideros so I've been looking at it and think I like it enough to proceed with it.

I don't know if this is a good place to ask questions but I'll give it a shot.

Lua appears to be able to run code assigned to a variable, and that code can be downloaded from the internet. It is my understanding that running non-signed non-curated code is strictly against Apple's App Store rules. I've talked with developers of other developer environments that run interpreted code, and they said they had to disable anything resembling exec. I'm not sure this is even possible with Lua. It appears that a few apps have been written using Gideros that are currently on the App Store so it appears that Apple is approving the apps made with Gideros. But do you guys have any backup plans in case Apple says it wont approve apps that use Lua (or Gideros) anymore?

Second, does anyone know of any Lua books aimed at teenagers or anything in the works for Gideros? A textbook is always a nice thing to be able to give students.

MikeHart

Hi James,

glad to see you here. Is there any specific reason why you ask this? Apple has a clear view of this. They have no problem with LUA being used. I would not question this and just go ahead. Be happy that it isn't blocked. I know what other SDK creators said about this and you can argue if a tool/SDK provider should take care of this. I think it should be up to the developer how they want to use this. And Gideros is not only supporting IOS but also Android and maybe other platforms in the future too. I am very happy that someone can use this functionality in gideros.

Cheers
Michael

Caroline

Hi, James - my view is that Apple have given the go-ahead for Lua programs, and it would be very difficult to backtrack now, given the success of other Lua-based solutions.

I'm here because of the potential of write once, use everywhere - mobile or desktop.

The only Lua books I've noticed for younger people are the World Of Warcraft interface books. I don't have these, but WOW uses Lua for scripting. I also don't know how much would translate between WOW and Gideros, but they may be worth investigating. (Although encouraging WOW might not be part of your plan )

fr334rtisT

This post called my attention, I want write iOS apps/games, but don't own an Apple pc and can't buy one, I can possibly have osx in my pc, but still don't want to have hassle with Objective-C. I know with GIDEROS I don't need to have a mac because I can run GIDEROS Studio on PC/Windows, but if I want to test my iOS apps in my iPhone, do I need a mac for that? Anyways, what about the Lua Reference Book, I think is a good start up... Also the GIDEROS API reference is not that hard, but may be for youngsters it is... May be changing the way it looks and show it a little more dynamic young people oriented would do the job.

gorkem

Hi fr334rtisT

Glad you asked this, let me clarify. It may not be obvious the very first time.

1. In order to develop for iOS and Android, you need a PC (either Windows, Mac OS X or Linux). There's no specific requirement here.

2. To test your application on an Android, you need to install the GiderosAndroidPlayer.apk to your device that ships with Gideros Studio - this doesn't depend on OS and you can do this using several ways.

3. To test your application on iOS, you need to install GiderosiPhonePlayer or GiderosiPadPlayer to your iOS device. I believe you can find a Mac from one of your friends to do that. This is a 1-step process, and you can give that Mac to your friend again, and go on developing using your everyday PC.

So for the most part of your development lifecycle, you won't need a Mac.

After you finish up with development and testing on the real device or using the Player on your PC, you need to produce an executable, and sign your application before sending this executable to App Store. In order to do this, you export your application under Gideros Studio -> File -> Export project, and it'll save your project in Xcode 3 format. Again, ask your friend to get his Mac for another half an hour, fire up Xcode (either version 3 or version 4), and compile this project, sign it, and send to AppStore.

This way, you don't have to

1. Pay for your IDE (using Gideros Studio is free, if you don't mind the splash screen - well it doesn't show it yet, anyhow, so we don't ask for anything at the moment hehe)
2. Pay for any services or sign a revenue sharing agreement.
3. Pay for a Mac OS X device.

Gideros Studio lowers the barrier towards development for iOS & Android devices.

Hope this is clear. Let me know if you have more questions.

Gorkem

MikeHart

Hi fr334rtisT,

Apple has a pretty clear stand on this. You must use Apple hardware to create apps for OSX and IOS. I read about people that run OSX on a pc. If Apple finds out that yo do this, they can cancel your developer subscription because of going against their rules.

Michael

atilim

"Programming in Lua" is a great book and covers every aspects of Lua programming. I can highly recommend it (to teenagers and young students also).

First edition (covers Lua 5.0) can be read online here: http://www.lua.org/pil/
Second edition (covers Lua 5.1) can be ordered from http://www.amazon.com/dp/8590379825 and also available as an ebook http://store.feistyduck.com/products/programming-in-lua

fr334rtisT

Well @gorkem thanks for clarifying my doubts about ios and apple, surely you gave me more than I need it and thanks for showing the workaround to this situation. As for android I don't own an android device, but surely the GIDEROS Android simulator will work well, if not I just use the emulator or a vm or ask a friend for a device.

@MikeHart don't worry I won't be doing any apps for iOS to be published on the app store, I just want the experience of making an iOS app without being tide up to a mac and Objective-C, all the apps I will do will be only for educational purposes only, I will test them in my iDevice and hey it works cool, may be when I buy a real mac, I could do the publishing of any iOS app I make, but for the moment it just for learning and GIDEROS Studio and Lua can make that possible

@atilim Thanks for those reference, will get one of them soon to start again with GIDEROS Studio

Thanks everyone for the help

MikeHart

@MagnusViri

Here is a link form Apple that states that you should not worry.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/09/09Statement-by-Apple-on-App-Store-Review-Guidelines.html

Magnusviri

Thanks for the replies and thanks for the book references.

Today I just found mention on the Wikipedia Lua article saying that Apple is allowing Lua as well so I'm not going to worry about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_(programming_language)#Video_games

Caroline

That Wikipedia Lua article is a great introduction. I'm still trying to understand metatables fully, and that Fibonacci sequence is a good example.
If it had pairs and ipairs, it would probably have all the syntax that I always forget (appalling memory here).

Magnusviri

@Caroline, you said that you are interested in Gideros "because of the potential of write once, use everywhere - mobile or desktop." Is desktop on Gideros' roadmap? And what about consoles (Xbox, PS3, Wii)?

And I don't know if I'm crazy or not but I decided since I have to teach a class on this in a few months that writing my own book was a good way to learn this and get the textbook that I want. I guess that's why I just asked this question because I just started my paragraph describing Gideros and I thought Gideros was mobile only.

atilim

Hi @Magnusviri,

Although currently we only support for mobile, exporting as a desktop application is definitely in our roadmap (as @Caroline said). And I think there isn't any technical obstacles to support consoles also.

Is there any plan to publish or open some parts of your textbook?

gorkem

@magnusviri Gideros Studio produces native binaries for iOS and Android devices. We also have plans to enable native Win/Mac/Linux binaries, as it's fairly simpler than adding another mobile platform. It basically requires us to write a wrapper around current Mac/Win/Lin Players. If we get enough demand for this, we will definitely increase its priority.

Magnusviri

@atilim, I would like to publish it. I will look into it. If that doesn't work I'll at least make it open source.

It's good to hear that desktop is on the roadmap. I think it is important eventually to have it.

gorkem

@magnusviri your graphics designer is doing an awesome job =D>

Magnusviri

@gorkem, Thank you, I will let her know.

If you add desktop support, will you change the name from Gideros Mobile?

I know Gideros is a bay, but why is it named after it?

gorkem

Our name won't change for this reason - we are focused on mobile development.

Gideros is a place we've been to before, and loved. Do you have another nice name suggestion? =:)

Magnusviri

Gideros is a great name. I guess I was curious if you guys lived there. And the mobile focus sounds great to me.

gorkem

We are living in Istanbul, but periodically to go to Antalya for travel (you may check photos from Google) - so nice places to live.

Magnusviri

So I am actually writing a book for teens, very basic stuff. I'll definately be teaching a class using Gideros at the Univeristy of Utah to some teens this summer so it looks good.

Would you guys prefer I say "Gideros" or "Gideros Mobile" every time I speak of Gideros (ha)?

gorkem

So I am actually writing a book for teens, very basic stuff. I'll definately be teaching a class using Gideros at the Univeristy of Utah to some teens this summer so it looks good.

Would you guys prefer I say "Gideros" or "Gideros Mobile" every time I speak of Gideros (ha)?

Great to hear that Please let us know about the progress

Feel free to call "Gideros" or "Gideros Studio" for the product name. Gideros is shorter and can be safely used

boriskey

James actually posted his book here and it is very good reading and not only for teens!
http://blog.magnusviri.com/mobile-game-programming-lesson-1.html