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    Anyone here used VK? It has a games platform...

    SinisterSoftSinisterSoft Maintainer
    in General questions
    Anyone here used VK, it apparently has many times more users than facebook!

    Here is a link to the games api:
    https://vk.com/dev/direct_games

    Just wondering if it's worth having Gideros export to it? (based on the facebook export)
    Coder, video game industry veteran (since the '80s, ❤'s assembler), arrested - never convicted hacker (in the '90s), dad of five, he/him (if that even matters!).
    https://deluxepixel.com
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    Comments

    • olegoleg Member
      VK - use only in Russia, the Russian nyoli do not pay for games, for advertising Russians also pay very little
      VC servers began to block in several countries


      my games:
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=razorback456
      мій блог по гідерос https://simartinfo.blogspot.com
      Слава Україні!
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      edited August 2018
      SinisterSoft said:

      Anyone here used VK, it apparently has many times more users than facebook!

      Here is a link to the games api:
      https://vk.com/dev/direct_games

      Just wondering if it's worth having Gideros export to it? (based on the facebook export)

      VK - use only in Russia, the Russian nyoli do not pay for games, for advertising Russians also pay very little
      VC servers began to block in several countries
      Statistics show that russian market is huge, and there're lots of money spent.

      I'll provide stats and links here.

      P. S. @oleg I also don't like mr.Putin, I share the view that he is huilo. :D
      But politics aside, russian market is pretty good, it would be great to have VK SDK integrated.
      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
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    • olegoleg Member
      edited August 2018
      Apollo14 said:


      Statistics show that russian market is huge, and there're lots of money spent.

      I'll provide stats and links here.

      P. S. @oleg I also don't like mr.Putin, I share the view that he is huilo. :D
      But politics aside, russian market is pretty good, it would be great to have VK SDK integrated.

      the Russian market is small
      population of russia with the internet <population of Japan
      all Russians who are ready to buy games - have FB,
      those who sit only in VC - never buy games

      I'm not talking about politics but about business

      ** якби я хотів розказати про політику яб дав посилання на сторінку розробника VK - у якого віджали цю компанію ;)
      my games:
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=razorback456
      мій блог по гідерос https://simartinfo.blogspot.com
      Слава Україні!
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      edited August 2018
      @SinisterSoft There're two huge russian html5 instant platforms: VK.com, OK.ru
      *VK.com is used by young generation (most of them are yonger than 35yo).
      *OK.ru is used by elder people who are at least 40+ years old.

      I'd list 5 good reasons to integrate VK and OK SDK:
      1) Russian market by itself is huge (I mean really huge, like India, China, Brazil):
      https://app2top.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/34577597094_2b5ee708b8_h.jpg
      2) In 2017 Russia entered top-10 spenders:
      https://imgurhd.ru/i/3nt3_orig.jpg (stats by AppAnnie)
      3) Every new game is FEATURED for free on VK/OK platforms (they are constantly looking for new games, their platforms are still not overcrowded)
      4) OK.ru has very specific elder audience, HEAVILY involved in casual gaming.
      Some curious information from recent gamedev conference:
      * http://nevosoft.podfm.ru/my/159
      * https://bit.ly/2PmE40U
      5) There're lots of russian developers working in global game industry.
      I was surprised that large part of top tier games is actually made by russian studios (titles like 'Hustle Castle', 'Gardenscapes', 'War Robots', 'Seekers notes', etc.)
      Gideros can become very interesting for russian game developers.
      Earlier, nobody had an opportunity to export games for both mobile and VK/OK platforms, it was two completely different worlds.

      P. S. If you'll decide to integrate VK&OK SDK, I'd be glad to help with translations and distributing news about Gideros in local russian gamedev communities.
      P. P. S. Their API:
      https://apiok.ru/en/apps/instant_games
      https://vk.com/dev/direct_games
      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
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    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      edited August 2018
      @oleg statistics by Flurry Analytics and AppAnnie, 2017:



      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • SinisterSoftSinisterSoft Maintainer
      My main concerns are these:

      1) Was that the original developer of VK 'forced' out by 'friends' of the Russian government. I'm not sure if this is true or not.

      2) Do users of the platform actually buy IAP?

      3) How easy is it to add another HTML export type? - it seems very similar to Facebook's though.

      Advantages would be:

      1) Huge untapped market.

      2) Will bring more coders to Gideros.

      3) New 'feature' gideros has that others don't.
      Coder, video game industry veteran (since the '80s, ❤'s assembler), arrested - never convicted hacker (in the '90s), dad of five, he/him (if that even matters!).
      https://deluxepixel.com
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • SinisterSoftSinisterSoft Maintainer
      The games side of things on VK seems more evolved than the one on facebook, also doesn't seem dominated by big players.
      Coder, video game industry veteran (since the '80s, ❤'s assembler), arrested - never convicted hacker (in the '90s), dad of five, he/him (if that even matters!).
      https://deluxepixel.com
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • SinisterSoftSinisterSoft Maintainer

      2018-08-20_08-40-32.png
      1017 x 901 - 641K
      Coder, video game industry veteran (since the '80s, ❤'s assembler), arrested - never convicted hacker (in the '90s), dad of five, he/him (if that even matters!).
      https://deluxepixel.com
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      edited August 2018
      1) Was that the original developer of VK 'forced' out by 'friends' of the Russian government. I'm not sure if this is true or not.

      2) Do users of the platform actually buy IAP?
      1) Some sources say Pavel Durov was forced by billionaires&government.
      Some sources say he has hit a pedestrian, and moved out of country to avoid consequenses.
      Some sources say he is in conspiracy with russian FSB (ex-KGB), they performed a show to make people believe that Telegram is the most secure messenger in the world, while all data is successfully transferring to russian government. :D

      2) Their users do buy IAP. VK and OK are held by huge and greedy multi-billion corp (Mail.ru / My.com).
      At recent conference Deputy Head of OK Gaming Division stated that after start in 2017 they've paid to developers over a hundred million RUB (about 1.700.000USD), not including platform's share
      All this money comes from IAP.

      (and this is OK only, while VK is much bigger).
      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • SinisterSoftSinisterSoft Maintainer
      I looked at the API and people pay in 'votes' - it's like an internal currency. How do you cash-in your votes?
      Coder, video game industry veteran (since the '80s, ❤'s assembler), arrested - never convicted hacker (in the '90s), dad of five, he/him (if that even matters!).
      https://deluxepixel.com
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • olegoleg Member
      Apollo14 said:

      @oleg statistics by Flurry Analytics and AppAnnie, 2017:




      These are Russian statistics that do not use VC
      my games:
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=razorback456
      мій блог по гідерос https://simartinfo.blogspot.com
      Слава Україні!
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • olegoleg Member
      edited August 2018
      SinisterSoft said:

      The games side of things on VK seems more evolved than the one on facebook, also doesn't seem dominated by big players.

      VC - has more functions than the FB, but it was all done before Durov fled from Russia and threw the company


      **The more platforms a gideros supports, the better
      but if you talk about money-VK-much much worse than FB


      my games:
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=razorback456
      мій блог по гідерос https://simartinfo.blogspot.com
      Слава Україні!
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      @oleg we don't have to choose either FB or OK.
      We can publish everywhere. :smile:
      SinisterSoft said:

      I looked at the API and people pay in 'votes' - it's like an internal currency. How do you cash-in your votes?

      They have standard partnership program:
      https://vk.com/dev/partnership
      (SWIFT, VISA, ePayments, etc.)

      Likes: SinisterSoft

      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
      +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )Share on Facebook
    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      edited August 2018
      @SinisterSoft there is one more nice thing that VK offers, besides html5:
      https://vk.com/dev/mobile_games

      If developer includes their SDK in app (for social functions like auth, shares, etc.)
      he can publish his app on Google Play, like he does normally
      and then submit it to special VK mobile catalogue, get traffic from there

      For us it's easy to detect user's locale, if it's RU - then show him VK options when he plays our game. For other countries show Facebook like always.

      Likes: SinisterSoft

      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
      +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )Share on Facebook
    • olegoleg Member
      Apollo14 said:

      @oleg we don't have to choose either FB or OK.
      We can publish everywhere. :smile:

      ERROR LOGIC

      коли ти витрачаєш час і гроші, на нерентабельний бінес

      ти недоотримуєш прибуток в інших місцях, бо ти приділяєш їм менше уваги

      my games:
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=razorback456
      мій блог по гідерос https://simartinfo.blogspot.com
      Слава Україні!
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • antixantix Member
      I'll give you one good reason not to implement this SDK.. because there are other more important things Gideros needs right now.

      Likes: oleg

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    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      edited August 2018
      oleg said:


      ERROR LOGIC
      коли ти витрачаєш час і гроші, на нерентабельний бінес
      ти недоотримуєш прибуток в інших місцях, бо ти приділяєш їм менше уваги

      @oleg besides other arguments, there were two essential:
      1) Flurry & AppAnnie stats: Russian market has ripened, Russia is in top10 spending countries
      2) We can publish games on Facebook, nobody is restricting us. Then just replace some lines of code, instead of FB API calls insert VK/OK API calls.
      It doesn't look like a big trouble.
      antix said:

      I'll give you one good reason not to implement this SDK.. because there are other more important things Gideros needs right now.

      @antix Can you please list the list of important things that you think are missing?
      I'm not trying to argue, I really wanna know what else is missing. Thx!
      As I see it, nothing prevents us from making even top tier games.
      - Spine lua class is working now, more perfomant C++ plugin is on the way
      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • olegoleg Member
      " besides other arguments, there were two essential:
      1) Flurry & AppAnnie stats: Russian market has ripened, Russia is in top10 spending countries"

      ** All of these expenses are spent by Russians on facebook
      on the platform VC Russians do not spend anything
      **vk -popular because it contains a lot of pirate content - the piracy is not paid



      "2) We can publish games on Facebook, nobody is restricting us. Then just replace some lines of code, instead of FB API calls insert VK/OK API calls.
      It doesn't look like a big trouble."

      **There are millions of sites on the internet, where you can also publish games for free, but it will not bring you money.
      my games:
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=razorback456
      мій блог по гідерос https://simartinfo.blogspot.com
      Слава Україні!
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • antixantix Member
      @Apollo14 for starters how about a fast native Noise implementation for procedural generation of terrain and other procedural generated goodness. Steering behaviors ala OpenSteering would be a wonderful addition to Gideros. Pathfinding with A* at least would also be a great boon to Gideros coders. That's just a few, there are more. I hope you can see that there are a lot of things that Gideros needs, things that are actually useful when making games.

      Of course at the end of the day people will do what people will do and I can only squeak and give my 3 bits worth, however pointless it is.

      Likes: MoKaLux

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    • piepie Member
      @antix there already are some A* pathfinding algorithms in pure lua: ie. Jumper by yonaba is pretty fast :)
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    • antixantix Member
      @pie I know there are numerous pathfinding code available in Lua but a native solution would be best. Just look at the performance difference between Bump.lua and cbump which @hgy29 made in native code.. those are the kinds of things that allow you to do more in your games.. which is what we all want :)
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    • totebototebo Member
      For clear-cut feature requests I'd put them down on GitHub with as much detail as possible. Then discussions like these can point to those feature requests instead of fizzling out in the forum.

      https://github.com/gideros/gideros/issues

      Likes: Apollo14, SinisterSoft

      My Gideros games: www.totebo.com
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    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      edited August 2018
      totebo said:

      For clear-cut feature requests I'd put them down on GitHub with as much detail as possible. Then discussions like these can point to those feature requests instead of fizzling out in the forum.

      https://github.com/gideros/gideros/issues

      ++ for clearcut features on github :smile:
      Also we can start contributing ourselves (even if we're not familiar with C++, we can enhance missing docs, share code examples, etc.) :)

      Likes: hgy29, SinisterSoft

      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
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    • SinisterSoftSinisterSoft Maintainer
      The more people contribute to the docs, the better.
      Coder, video game industry veteran (since the '80s, ❤'s assembler), arrested - never convicted hacker (in the '90s), dad of five, he/him (if that even matters!).
      https://deluxepixel.com
      +1 -1Share on Facebook
    • antixantix Member
      edited August 2018
      Documentation should be getting much easier to edit in the near future. Anyone who thinks it's fun to edit raw XML files needs to stand in the corner of the room.. facing the corner.. with their eyes closed :D

      Likes: SinisterSoft

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    • Apollo14Apollo14 Member
      antix said:

      Anyone who thinks it's fun to edit raw XML files needs to stand in the corner of the room.. facing the corner.. with their eyes closed

      ...beaten up with a foam baton :D

      Likes: antix

      > Newcomers roadmap: from where to start learning Gideros
      "What one programmer can do in one month, two programmers can do in two months." - Fred Brooks
      “The more you do coding stuff, the better you get at it.” - Aristotle (322 BC)
      +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )Share on Facebook
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